8/10 Students Leaving, My turn

[bigblockz8]

Some More CFI Issues

I have heard from many sources that 79-85% of students never finish their training. I have also heard that this is generally post solo, only about 40% of this drop out is pre solo.

Some info/data to read http://www.aopa.org/ftinitiative/

I am a pre-solo student. Today was my final lesson for the foreseeable future unless I get lucky and win one of the many scholarships,contests, or jobs that I applied for.

My reasons for leaving?

• Cost! (if the other issues weren't here I'd gladly shut my mouth about cost)

• Training that sucks (Microsoft FSX has "taught*" me more about how to fly and my CFI acts more like a safety net when I attempt to put sim learning to use...little to no instruction occurs in the air or on the ground No guidance.)

• CFI's that don't give a rat's ***!

• The amount of trial and error involved ( I mean this by looking for new CFIs or looking for a new flight school just to find that they don't match)

• The impersonal numeric feeling. I'm just another transaction in the accounting books.

I have always wanted to fly but in my flight training my love has disappeared.

I now have more fun at home with a computer program than I do in the air. My computer is never late, never has excuses,never unprepared and is never vague.

I wake up wanting to fly. The more that I fly (in a training environment at least) the less I like it. I generally bum a ride once every several months in order to keep the flame lit. I find that I absolutely HATE learning to fly thanks to the training environment issues.

I am tired of the CFI's that are "yeah yeah get in and let me fly, I NEED TIME!" or the CFI's that're "Do what ever you want, I just need the time. If you're gonna crash I'll help you, just make sure that I'm not texting."

I think that costs only cause about 30% of all dropouts. Family/health maybe 20%. The experience, in my opinion, accounts for the majority. I do believe that about 30% are reasons that are out of GA's control. It's more so a combination of all of the factors.

Here was my day (today, a SUNDAY!) as an example, this is typical:

I arrived at 7:42 am

Pushed to the pumps at 7:46

Another pilot fueled the plane as I preflighted

Fueling/pre-flight complete: 7:52am

Plane is retied, ready to go, plugged in, and fp filed, only need a code 7:57am

CFI Arrives: 8:24am
CFI ready: 8:32 am
8:50 we takeoff

9:48 we land after 6 to's/ldg's

10:06 done debriefing, the first debriefing that I have ever had in 16 flights!

(I log this in order to ensure that I don't get another 2.5hr CFI time bill for a CFI that was there for 1.9hrs)

This is the 4/4 time he was late by 10 or more minutes. I've had 2 cancelled lessons for personal reasons on his part and 2 thanks to wx ( I don't mind wx issues.) I talked to the chief CFI and that didn't work out. In summary I am DONE with this nonsense.

Here is an excerpt from my CFI issue thread to clear up some preconceived notions formed by uninformed people:

"CFI#
1. Got a 737 F/O job

2. Got a CRJ seat (didn't care too much)

3.Too unprofessional. He told me not to preflight and that we only need to call out base and final. He also liked to start maneuvers without clearing turns. One lesson and left.

4. Got a job with Columbia Helicopters (was a bit unprepared)

5. Too many students, booked 2 months in advance. I flew with him by calling daily at 8 am for any cancellations.

6. He got a job at USAir

7. Current CFI

My current CFI is the one that is bothering me. He is always late and unprepared. His instruction is average (#6 was the best CFI) but it's the attitude that upsets me. He has a qausi-professional attitude. He is by-the-book in some respects but in others he is as laid back as a cop on the take."

I have had a grand total of 7 CFI's in my 13hrs (15hrs if you want to add heli and glider),10 CFI's including intro flights. One was a great CFI ( the best pilot that I have ever known, he is like Sean Tucker or Capt. Sully but in a 172, he left the school) , most others were CRJ right seat bound and they didn't care.

CFI's are the face of aviation. Airline pilots are not! To the general public those grey haired, well seasoned jet jocks may be but for aviation as a whole; you must learn to fly, instructors teach just that.

Bad instruction=Bad pilot= Bad reputation for GA and Aviation as a whole.

*I mean this by point and you go, which OBVIOUSLY isn't true. FSX is just a game. This point is for comparison to a widely known game about flying versus a human aviation "professional."
FSX is good for some tasks such as flying a DC-3 and then flying a Lear 45 though.

 

[Jim Logajan]

I didn't mean that I can just fly because I've played a video game. I didn't just pick up a shotgun and skeet shoot because I could play a PS2 and do the same, I got training. Same with driving.

What I mean is that I have only had one CFI that explained in advance and walked me through the how and the why. I'm essentially up there learning based on "Oh crap that wasnt good" as opposed to "if you do this, this will happen but in order to correct for this, do this" type of teaching. My point is that all but one of the CFI's have been the type to just warm a seat.

I have learned more flying with people who aren't instructors than some of my bad ones combined. I got taxiing down thanks to a 17 year old PP that taxiied behind me and saw that I had trouble. In 10 minutes of playing on the ramp he taught me how to taxi without having people wonder if I have a .12 BAL

My point was about the instructors. I don't know it all and neither do the oldest and wisest ATP's. Give them the same exact conditions everyday and they still won't know everything, none of us can.

When I read your first post I believe I got the meaning you intended with your flight simulator comment. But I also suspected (and see confirmed) that it would be misread, since it was short enough to be ambiguous.

Too bad about the costs and the poor experience with instructors. I was fortunate to have one CFI all the way through my training who was always there and always on time. But he was semi-independent and had been doing training about ten years.

Given your experience and cost tolerance, I see nothing wrong with your decision - only thing I would suggest is to keep open the option of getting a pilot certificate for some point in the future when things align better.

 

[Jim Logajan]

And what's wrong with me spending my money on $120/hr entertainment?

Nothing.

You could buy a good seat at some Broadway shows that for that hourly price.

Or take two people to a really fancy restaurant with lots of "atmosphere" and maybe spend that much per hour (unless it is a French restaurant, in which case your hourly rate goes way done.)

Or take two people up into the atmosphere in a small plane at that rate.

Give my regards to Broadway - cause I'd rather be flying.

 

[Jim Logajan]

Ahh yes, I'm such a horrible spokesman for GA with over 20 years of flying and I'm on my fourth round of airplane ownership giving a point of view of what I've seen happen over and over.

If I went to one World's fair, a picnic, and a Rodeo, would that make my opinion better than anyone else?

The guy who is whining about how s-tty he's being treated by the training environment is being viewed as the 'great rep' of GA because 'He really wants to learn', No, he really wants it handed to him, he doesn't want to learn, he wants to be able to fly without having to put up with anything or take control of his situation and control his training.

Your summary does not match what the OP related. It does not match the confirmation that others have related to equally atrocious training service by some CFIs and flight schools. It entirely glosses over the entirety of the 80% dropout rate.

My own response to him was a simple confirmation that it was reasonable to stop training for now, given all that had happened to him. He responded positively.

He just wants to sit back and complain and get attention by use of the 'internet suicide threat' "I'm gonna quit!" "Who gives a flying f-k?" Quit, why should I give a rats *** about your abused sorry life? Let me tell you what, we all have our own abused and sorry life and nobody really gives a flying f- about yours. Anybody that pretends to has their own agenda and plans to use you for something in their own little self directed soap opera.

Um. Hmm. Absolutely no diplomatic way to respond. Pretty much self-incriminating is all I can say.

Children and women complain about fairness and use melodramatic techniques to garner sympathy and attention.

Probably not wise to drink and post, lest the inner misogynist be revealed. Some B vitamins might help with the hang-over, but I've no advice on curing anything else that post will cause.

Until you have the maturity to accept adversity with resolution that it will require your effort and your effort alone to overcome the obstacles that you find in your path, you do not have the maturity to act as PIC. 20 years and a couple thousand hours have taught me that nature and aviation do not care in the slightest what you think is fair or what you are ready for. Aviation is going to throw things at you with no consideration or concern if you live or die, and you just have to deal with it, denying and complaining is nothing but a waste of time and effort; may as well just get out of the habit now. Like I said, nobody wants to hear it and it makes you sound like a petulant child and will not be well received in the workplace.

Good point on adversity, though unfortunately it doesn't look like you handle the adversity of a little criticism very well yet, either.

 

[Jim Logajan]

Huh? There's a chat room here?

Upper right corner of this web page you should see a link labeled "Live Chat".

I've not yet tried it. Last time I used a live chat feature on a computer I used a Teletype to converse.