A Wife's Questions

[Becky]

I am working on some concerns about my husband's flying. He is quite intelligent and capable, but he glazes over and waves me off when I try to bring this subject up.

My questions:

1) How often should a pilot fly in order to truly stay safe? I have seen (online search) anywhere from 50 to 150 hours. I have asked a couple of people who fly whether it is safe to "dabble" at 20 or so hours per year, like my husband has done for the last 8 years, and they say no and look rather alarmed.

He does meet the minimum landings per three-month period, but often goes a month or two without flying at all. Naturally, this concern about "dabbling" makes me uncomfortable about flying with him.

2) How can a wife talk to her husband about flying and her feelings about it when he has apparently been "bitten" and can't talk about it rationally? It seems like a drug addiction to me, in a way. In every other area he is perfectly conversant and companionable.

Obviously this has been ongoing. He wants to share flying with me. I took pinch hitter classes, and went up with an instructor, and have flown with my husband. The sad fact is that I simply and intensely do not enjoy flying, and can't pretend to. And I can't pretend to "not care" if he were at some point to ramp up his flying (buying a plane has been mentioned!!!), because I don't want to lose increasing numbers of adventures and sharing life with him. He doesn't want that, either, but seems in thrall to the hobby nonetheless.

Thank you ... I know this touches some sensitive spots, perhaps. I am looking for perspectives I may be missing, or keys to communicating with my husband in this situation. At present I do hold the belief that large, time- and resource-intensive hobbies should be agreed upon by both partners, and not simply inflicted on one of them. But reaching any sort of compromise or agreement would require actual conversation, which this particular hobby seems to disable! :sad:

 

[Jim Logajan]

This past spring, I convinced her to take a "pinch hitter" course offered by our flying club. The course gave some introduction into how airplanes fly, how the air-traffic control system works, and what would happen if there was an emergency.
[...]
Maybe you should explore this? If your husband is in a flying club, they might offer pinch-hitter courses, too. Otherwise, any flight school can help.

She covered that in the very first post when she wrote "I took pinch hitter classes, and went up with an instructor, and have flown with my husband. The sad fact is that I simply and intensely do not enjoy flying, and can't pretend to."

 

[Jim Logajan]

An hour every couple of weeks, plus the associated hangar-flying and reading should keep your guy in the game. Do you own or rent?

Since she wrote "And I can't pretend to "not care" if he were at some point to ramp up his flying (buying a plane has been mentioned!!!)," he clearly rents.

 

[Jim Logajan]

1) How often should a pilot fly in order to truly stay safe? I have seen (online search) anywhere from 50 to 150 hours. I have asked a couple of people who fly whether it is safe to "dabble" at 20 or so hours per year, like my husband has done for the last 8 years, and they say no and look rather alarmed.

Since he has been averaging 20 hours per year for the past 8 years, I think your flying friends are being overly alarmed.

He does meet the minimum landings per three-month period, but often goes a month or two without flying at all. Naturally, this concern about "dabbling" makes me uncomfortable about flying with him.

Every 24 months he has to get a flight review. You might suggest he take an instructor up with him more often than that to review his flying. I have gone months without flying - the basic skills do not vanish that quickly.

2) How can a wife talk to her husband about flying and her feelings about it when he has apparently been "bitten" and can't talk about it rationally? It seems like a drug addiction to me, in a way. In every other area he is perfectly conversant and companionable.

It can become an obsession with one or more root causes. None of them are "rational".

Obviously this has been ongoing. He wants to share flying with me. I took pinch hitter classes, and went up with an instructor, and have flown with my husband. The sad fact is that I simply and intensely do not enjoy flying, and can't pretend to. And I can't pretend to "not care" if he were at some point to ramp up his flying (buying a plane has been mentioned!!!), because I don't want to lose increasing numbers of adventures and sharing life with him. He doesn't want that, either, but seems in thrall to the hobby nonetheless.

Have you considered directing him to this forum? While there is unfortunately too many enablers who will unthinkingly encourage he buy/fly more, there are a fair number of people who will dash the needed cold water on any plans to "buy".

For example, buying only makes fiscal sense if he starts spending on the order of $12,000 or more per year on flying. That's probably around 2 hours a week, every week. Throw in time to pre- and post-flight and traveling to and from the airport and that could be 4 hours a week invested. He needs to understand that is a large step up from 20 hours a year. He likely could not sustain a 5 times or more greater rate of flying over the course of multiple years to justify buying.

Thank you ... I know this touches some sensitive spots, perhaps. I am looking for perspectives I may be missing, or keys to communicating with my husband in this situation. At present I do hold the belief that large, time- and resource-intensive hobbies should be agreed upon by both partners, and not simply inflicted on one of them. But reaching any sort of compromise or agreement would require actual conversation, which this particular hobby seems to disable! :sad:

Obviously he enjoys flying and has wanted to try sharing that with you and you have tried your best too. I actually agree with you on why small airplanes are not all that fun, so I think I understand your view. They aren't all that great even for sight-seeing. That said, I still enjoy the things flying allows me even as I wish the aircraft were better, but I have come to terms with what is possible and available.

Wish I had some keys to pass along on the communications issue, but I'm not very good with direct personal communications; my wife will confirm that!

 

[Jim Logajan]

Ben: :lol:

Henning: Not fear, physical discomfort. Dislike the sensations. Thought "flying" with an instructor would help me but feeling that third dimension was unbearable. I don't like carnival rides, either.

Motion sickness or some other discomfort?

How are you on larger jets?

 

[Jim Logajan]

So if he golfed 20 hours (let's say 40) a year, you would have the same issue? You wouldn't want to participate, but would not like the fact that he was doing it without you?

What is the perfect answer to the problem that you would like to hear? What would ease your troubles? Basically what are you looking for your husband to do?

Honestly, either:

(a) she does not know the answer to this

(b) she just wants him to talk about it rather than changing the subject

(c) she can't say because she has asked him to check out POA which means he is reading what we are writing now.

20 hours a year cuts into your life together? You got issues, deal with them. It ain't that we are a bunch of pilots covering a brother, you are out of line. If he quits flying for skydiving would that be OK?

In her very first post she stated:

"buying a plane has been mentioned!!!"

She mentioned 20 hours a year only in regards to safety. He had been flying at that rate for the last 8 years, and since that hasn't been much of an issue in all that time, I don't see why so many posters are seeing a problem where there wasn't one mentioned, but miss the concern she has about changes that will affect their future.

She doesn't enjoy flying despite efforts to do so.
He appears to want to increase the amount of flying he does, or at least the amount of financial involvement. Absent clarification or correction from Becky, this difference in future expectations appears to me to be the cause of her concerns.

EDIT: I was still composing the above when Becky posted. Glad I got some of the essentials correct!

 

[Jim Logajan]

Jim Logajan has listened to me on this thread more carefully and responded more thoughtfully to me about this subject than my husband has. On every other subject, my husband and I can converse endlessly and pleasantly.

Blush. Thank you for that compliment. I reviewed my posts to this thread and see that other than helping you clarify the core issues to other posters, I only volunteered a couple of suggestions. Quite a few other posters seem to understand your situation, or have their view of it, and have provided what advice or criticism they can. I don't agree with some of the advice or criticisms, but you seem to be considering all of it and responding as diplomatically as humanly possible.

It sounds like you have gotten a better idea on how to approach the situation. While I sometimes disagree with Henning, his comment that "it's just emotion standing in the way," is pretty much the key issue (well, key to most every aspect of the human condition, actually!) Emotion, not rationality, is what is driving the actions of you and your husband.

Just don't be a martyr. Aviating is a choice, a hobby, not an externally imposed disease or affliction that can be categorized in the "worse" part of "for better or worse" marriage vows. On the other hand, you obviously want him to be happy but don't understand why he is unable to reciprocate with concern for your happiness.

If you don't think he'd flip out on seeing what you've posted to this forum, you might consider directing him here and suggest he post and ask what others think of his future plans to buy a plane or increase his flying. Obviously some will tell him to dump you and fly his brains out - one good reason to not direct him here! On the other, some of us will point out that he can live happily with a lot less flying because "it's just emotion standing in the way."

 

[Jim Logajan]

Descartes said "The heart has its reasons of which reason knows nothing."

Shucks - if you are well read enough to include apropos quotes from Descartes, you no doubt have the intellect to work out some mutually happy accommodation with your husband without the inconsistent and contradictory advise we can provide! Besides, the only qualification needed to be member of this forum is the ability to use a computer.

As to directing your husband here - on further reflection, I think it might only prove useful if you were unable to start and maintain some dialog with your husband. But it sounds like that may not be needed - and could be counterproductive.

 

[Jim Logajan]

Did I read that right, the guy raised your two kids that weren't his and now you are begrudging him a measly airplane? Get out of his way or out of his life.

I think you got that wrong, she wrote: "he has two kids, now mine...."
What would your advice be given that corrected information?

 

[Jim Logajan]

Jim, I hope Mrs. L appreciates the close attention you pay to communication.

Well, um, I suffer the same problem many husbands have: she can say something to me and it wont register. I'm a tad better with understanding the written word than the spoken one. Maybe if she used Western Union Telegrams....

It helps to know many of your wives are okay with you flying, though they don't share your interest. And that many wives did in fact learn to like flying, or if not actually liking it, at least flying with you now and then.

I don't know if anyone mentioned that there is a phrase analogous to "sports widow" that is used to describe the situation you are afraid you'd find yourself in: "aviation widow." As you've seen from those who have been willing to share their own private trials, the situation is not uncommon.

My husband is picking up on my change in attitude. We are talking. I feel more relaxed about things, and I don't think my previous level of anger and frustration will return, because I do feel heard now. So some of that stress is off my husband.

Cool. Sounds like PoA has acted as a kind of psychoanalyst's couch for you. Und no von had to write fake German accents ala Sigmund Freud. Das ist gut!

Henning, I can't hang out here on the site forever. I'm not a pilot!

As already noted, there are no requirements imposed by the operators of this forum on who may post; anyone can. It is nice if aviation is involved, but if you take a look you'll see there is a lot of non-aviation discussion going on.

I think this is a great community, though, and I'd love to be able to come back now and then if I have aviation questions that I can't find answers to anywhere else.

Consider asking your husband first - I'm sure he'd be happy to try and answer.

And if there were a forum somewhere for non-flying spouses, I'd probably visit it. Hopefully with an encouraging tone. We are somewhat of an overlooked group, you know. However, on this thread, you've come up trumps for us!

Gratefully,
Becky

I did some quick Google searching for "aviation widow" forums but couldn't find anything. Who knows, maybe the moderators could create an "Aviation Widow[er]s" subgroup on PoA.

 

[Jim Logajan]

An excellent idea. JIM STOP KITCHEN REMODEL WILL COST 75K STOP PLEASE ADJUST FLYING EXPENSES ACCORDINGLY STOP No ambiguity there.

Funny you should mention kitchen remodeling - we do plan to do that in the next year. I sure hope it costs less than $75k! STOP We are just now finishing a master bathroom remodel that we hope should be done this week. (The master bathroom remodel replaced all the cabinets, new Corian counter top, two new sinks and plumbing, new toilet, new floor and shower tile, etc. All for the low low price of ~$15k.)

Fortunately I'm happy renting airplanes - cheaper than owning an airplane (or house remodeling) at my current rate of flying. My wife is prone to motion sickness, so she takes Dramamine before she flies with me. But she does like to do photography, so that is something she tries to do when she flies with me. But she doesn't care for strut-braced high wing airplanes because the struts too often get into the shots. Alas, those are the only airplane types available at the places where I can rent.

I will ask him first, of course! Things are waaaay more relaxed around our house, thanks to all here. I hope I expressed my gratitude adequately. I know a lot of the work ahead will be mine.

That would serve a potentially valuable service for lots of spouses, who perhaps may already lurk. But I would, ah, call it something else. I still think airport "terminal" is an unfortunate label, too.

How about "Non-aviating Spouse Mutual Support Forum (or Group)"?
Too boring, I know. I also worked out "Mutual Information For Flying Enslaved Dependents Discussion Forum" (or M.I.F.F.E.D. Discussion Forum for short.)

[I used to try inventing amusing acronyms - but don't do it much anymore, and you can see why. I seem to recall I started trying to invent them after reading some stores by author Keith Laumer, I think, who put some amusing ones in his stories.]

 

[Jim Logajan]

I like M.I.F.F.E.D!!! That led me to think of Pertinent Info for Spouses Sucked into Escalating Desertion.

That's better than my attempt - it is hard to come up with a cute acronym.

Through the years I have thought about writing a book for disgruntled aviation spouses, titled "The Reluctant Right-Seater." But I was too disgruntled to focus on it. This thread has much material for such a book! Writing such a book would be therapeutic!

But would have a very small customer base. Maybe a pamphlet ...

Nice title for such a book, actually. I agree with Jaybird - you should write it.

Hmmm - "Reluctant Right-Seaters" also sounds good for a forum name too.

(In helicopters, the convention is that the pilot sits on the right and any passenger on the left, but most people with these issues involve airplanes.)