Because I Said So, That's Why

[Jaybird180]

At this point you have absolutely no idea of what you will never do.

Yes I do. I will never bring up GPS on this forum again as a navigational aid.

Frankly, this topic is kind of getting beaten to death here, but just understand , Mafoo, that most posters here have your best interests at heart. They aren't just old salts who think you need to do it the hard way because that's how they did it. They just appreciate that knowing how to do it the old way may either save your butt one day, or may come in handy as a backup, or if nothing else, will teach you more about decision making and problem solving.

Fly around enough and you WILL encounter GPS outages.

Above is a series of posts from Jesse's "My Student Got Lost Thread". I had to catch up reading it and it was at 7 pages when this thought occurred to me:

This theme has come up several times where a student or new private pilot argues his case for GPS. There are a few exceptions of experienced pilots that are GPS die-hards (L.Adamson for example). On the other side of the argument are other pilots and CFI's that constantly try to convice the student the he should learn something in addition to GPS.

Side note: *IMHO, the regs are on the side of the student as is classifies VOR and GPS as electronic navigation and requires the testee to demonstrate navigation both by electronic and non-electronic means. I know that's going to get me in trouble, but....

Nevertheless, brings me to my point: I think there will be a point in time, as this cadre of newer pilots becomes CFIs; and that this thought process will be with them a long time and they will train the new crop of pilots as the current cadre of CFIs become the old crusty CFIs and DPEs (LOL- Jesse, imagine yourself as the crusty guy)...

It seems to me that the old crust camp has done a poor job of explaining in believable fashion WHY their thought process is superior. They only repeat that mantra, repeat that mantra, repeat that mantra and say....'one day you'll see it my way'. I have my doubts.

To the (soon to be) crusty crowd, how about a well thought out rational explanation? The one you're using doesn't seem to be working. At least every 2-3 months there will be another argument discussion on PoA over using GPS only and as I see it, your legacy of 'learn something other than GPS' will be soon be lost.

I leave you with this:

I will never bring up GPS on this forum again as a navigational aid.

"A man convinced against his will, is of the same opinon still" - several attributions

 

[Jim Logajan]

What percentage of accidents are due to navigation errors?

How often are IFR flights navigated by use of pilotage or dead reckoning?

I'm aware of accidents in which aircraft have run into terrain because the pilots presumably didn't know where they were - but my recollection of the accident reports I have read is that the accidents happened when visibility was insufficient for proper pilotage, or where more precision was needed than dead reckoning could provide.

Absent evidence to the contrary, navigation failures for most of us during most trips in VFR is going to be embarrassing or inconvenient - rarely fatal.

 

[Jim Logajan]

What percentage of accidents are due to navigation errors?

Without know the answer to the above, how do people (i.e. the FAA) determine how much of a student's finite time and money should be allocated to navigation skills in general?

 

[Jim Logajan]

Is that the job of the FAA, or the job of the CFI. I would assume that the amount of time and money spent on learning navigational skills would be proportional to the students ability to learn and demonstrate the skill to the CFI's satisfaction. Other than some minimums spent on certain activities(hood work, solo time, minimum flight time, and maybe a few I am forgetting) I do not remember any minimum times spent on any other skills. In fact, the xc flights are based on distances, and night flights on distances and number of landings if I remember correctly. It's too late and I am too tired to check it out.

Thanks for answering - but a second after I hit submit I realized I wrote one thing while intending to write a different question.

Not sure why navigation techniques is worth all this arguing.

 

[Jim Logajan]

When I was doing more instruction, our saddle of choice was a CH7A/X No xpdr, no vor, no gps. just the bare minimum VFR... and a chart. After helping enough folks earn solo - CPL to get my goldseal a few times over, I've have yet to see one get lost.

Well shucks - the only reason nobody got lost is that all they had to do to find out where they were was to shout questions down to the drivers of the cars passing them on the freeway below. Hard to get lost at those speeds anyway.

 

[Jim Logajan]

But "because I know more then you, and this is how it is" is not going to cut it with me (in any aspect of my life). You need to explain it to me, so I believe it.

You should have used "Locus ab auctoritate est infirmissimus" as your subject line. If nothing else, this would have slowed down those who missed the central point of your OP long enough to look the Latin phrase up. Then they'd be arguing how wrong Aquinas was instead of how dangerous it is to rely on GPS.