Cirrus Fatal yesterday and I learned something about Class B floors

[FastEddieB]

Last night a Cirrus apparently flew straight into a mountain just north of Las Vegas.

Lots of comments on COPA so far. The pilot was experienced, familiar with the area and a former ATC controller, which makes the accident hard to explain.

One thing which struck someone - and me - as odd was that they would establish a floor to Class Bravo with a mountain sticking up into it:

(The red circle is a TFR for the accident site)

Maybe this is common, but it seems potentially dangerous to find a mountain right where you’d be maneuvering beneath a Class Bravo shelf.

Tragic, regardless.

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

So I have watched this air Safety accident report before. What strikes me odd was the statement about FAA policy dictated denying flight following foe the surrounding airports of the Phoenix TRACON. Why is that?? Is that true?? The class Bravos near me must be more accommodating.

A number of contributing causes in that accident:

Pilot was flying night VFR without an IFR flight plan on a dark moonless night.

Flight did not follow the instrument departure procedure.

Departure overlapped a shift change at the tower of the departure airport.

Floor of the bravo is low relative to terrain there. A CFI flying with me recently commented on how uncomfortably low it was, even during the day.

I believe Phoenix approach was told to be more accommodating after this of requests for clearance through the bravo, but it is still hard to get if they are landing to the west as this right in the approach corridor.

Evidently the aircraft was not legally airworthy. That likely did not directly contribute to the crash, but may have indicated a lax safety culture, though they had never had a prior incident or accident.

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

The primary cause was improper preflight planning.

They had flown the same flight a week before and flew in and turned it around very quickly, so likely no serious consideration of the flight plan whatsoever.

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

if the previous flight was also at night, sounds like they ran out of luck on #2.

I believe a critical difference was the timing of the call for the turn from runway heading. Previously that had occurred very quickly and the flight path was west of terrain. The controller shift change on the second flight caused a delay and so simply turning to the heading led straight into terrain.

For night VFR, I follow the instrument departure procedures unless I know the area extremely well and am watching very very carefully.

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

The only rude controllers I've ever talked to were PHX.

Do you remember how long ago that was? After the crash in the Sups, this was supposed to be improved.

I have occasionally been cleared through the Bravo in the past 3 years. A sort of inverse problem which drives my son crazy is for a while they would give you a clearance which required going through the Bravo, but not say the magic words “you are cleared into Bravo”. Though even that seems better lately.

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

That is a horribly drawn airspace. Ultimately, the poor guy was PIC, but the airspace designers are accessories in this - as is anyone who created a culture where he thought he couldn't get a clearance in that area.

I believe that shelf was put so low there in order to allow parallel runways on the 2 south runways at KPHX, which they did not end up often doing.

Not really. The tower told him to extend his upwind. He then turned into the path of a mountain that he wouldn't be able to climb above because of the Bravo shelf. Now, there were other mistakes made - particularly involving situational awareness - but the preflight was probably ok.

I read the whole book by the wife. “Angels Three” by Karen Perry, since I am a newer pilot and we live in Phoenix. Some of the admissions in the book surprised me.

It struck me that there was a certain sloppy attitude about this flight. They had done the same flight a week or two before and just quickly turned it around. IIRC they turned this around quickly. Probably no time to really consider the specific pre-planning of this flight segment. They may never have even considered what would happen if the turn to the south was made later.

So complacency may have been a factor here.

I think there also was a tower controlled change just as they were taking off which may have reduced the awareness of the situation by the controller as well.

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

I was flying out of KFFZ just a few weeks ago VFR during the day with an instructor. He normally works out of KCHD. He was really impressed by how close this shelf is and commented also on the bad design.

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

By the way, when did that shelf change? I have a 2012 sectional that shows it being at the same location and altitude as it is now.

I think 2007. I was not a pilot then but remembered the complaints about noise changes shortly after we moved here in 2005. The accident was in late 2011.