Martha Lunken - Bridges - Log Book Hours?

[WDD]

Yes, Martha flew under a bridge. FAA has taken away all of her certificates, ratings, and good conduct medals. I heard it was done in a tarmac ceremony with a drummer in the background as she stood at attention while they ripped off her chevrons and epaulettes with the sharp end of a 19th century officers sword.

She needs to re start and get her private license as a student now.

So....
1) She has to take the written test
2) She has to have a CFI sign off on her taking the practical
3) She has to take the practical.

Do any of her log book hours count for anything? Can she reference her log book and go straight from written to a few hours with a CFI for "practical prep", get the sign off and do the practical?

Or does she have to re do the 40 hours (3 hours instrument, long cross country, etc.) as if her log book didn't exist?

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

Though I have never liked that use of the term "semantics". Shouldn't semantics, that is meaning, be important?

But in any case, there are two definitions of permanent at work here - "
Definition of permanent
(Entry 1 of 2)

1: continuing or enduring without fundamental or marked change : STABLEthe museum's permanent art collectionan accident causing permanent injury
2a: not easily removed, washed away, or erased : INDELIBLE sense 1apermanent stains"

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

Peter, revocations of certificates is permanent. Typically though, a pilot who has had certificates revoked can petition the FAA for recertification after one calendar year. The original certificate is dead and gone, but if the application for recertification is granted by the FAA and the airman goes through the hoops of getting a new medical certificate (typically the physical exam is performed by a senior AME designated by the regional flight surgeon and the OKC good doctors pour over all of the airman's medical records), passing the written, oral, and practical tests, a new airman certificate is issued with a new certificate number. The original certificate revocation is permanent, and a new certificate is issued after recertification.

Ask me how I know.

Yes, I see the point. But I think @Salty ‘s point was - if a person has been a bad actor and had their certificates revoked, why isn’t their ability to hold a certificate permanently removed?

Perhaps some of the aviation attorneys will chime in on whether their was prior case law that challenged such a form of permanence.

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

There is far more to this than what is being reported, which is the case in the majority of these events.

One might ask if that is a good thing? One of the big differences between a regulatory and court proceeding.

Court actions are generally public, more expensive, more accurate, and possibly more permanent.

Regulatory actions can be less public, less expensive, less accurate, and less permanent.

Just one way to think about it.

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

Avweb's account of the action matches what I was told by FSDO a couple of days ago when I was questioning how to legally disable my ADS-B.

https://www.avweb.com/aviation-news/bridge-stunt-leads-to-ads-b-revocation/

I've heard other guys talk about tripping their breaker when outside of rule airspace. I think this story has opened some eyes to the consequences.

Outside of controlled airspace can’t you disable both your ADS-B out and transponder?

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

No. See post #55.

Interesting that 91.225(d) is also present which specifies the airspaces where operation is required. I wonder if the intent of (f) was actually at all times, or it was only supposed to apply at all times while in the airspaces mentioned in (d).

It also raises the question of what happens if you have equipment which is using the transponder output to generate the ADS-B out and you turn off the transponder where allowed outside controlled airspace?

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

So one would have to think about what constitutes failure to be equipped. What if you remove a connection between the power and the ADS-B out? Is it still "equipped"? I guess this might also require a logbook entry.

The other approach would be to look back at the enabling legislation and the corresponding comment period on the rule-making and see if there is a basis for a challenge there.

Seems like a lot of work to avoid it but I suppose a case may come up which justifies it.

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

Then you are violating the regs. The ADSB transmitters I've seen controlled by a switch require a placard stating it must be on at all times.

Different situation that was perhaps not clear. What if one turns off the normal transponder, not the ADS-B out unit?

For the ones which depend on the transponder signal, it seems like this would effectively turn off the ADS-B out transmissions, even if the unit is still switched on.

Likely better for those who care to try and challenge the reg directly.