New Information On MH 370

G

ggroves

New member
U.S. officials have an "indication" the missing Malaysia Airlines jetliner may have crashed in the Indian Ocean and is moving the USS Kidd to the area to begin searching.

"We have an indication the plane went down in the Indian Ocean," the senior official said.

Translation - Our top secret U.S. military spy satellite network tracked the entire flight from takeoff to crash. We've known this all along, but were unsure of how or when to reveal this information without compromising global security.

http://gma.yahoo.com/us-officials-i...cean-170011087--abc-news-topstories.html?vp=1
 
Art VanDelay said:
Or a fire in the electronics bay started by a recirc fan. I've had one of those burn up on me already on the 777. I have about 5000 hours now roughly on the 777 and I have no idea how to turn off the data reporting equipment. There's no switch for that in the cockpit - no reason for one. Possibly there's a circuit breaker for it but more likely it's grouped with the others down in the E&E compartment.
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Are you suggesting the loss of the aircraft could be due to a fire? Perhaps something like:
A fire in fuselage or cockpit kills or causes the transponder and the comm and data reporting radios to stop transmitting in the sequence they appear to have gone dead. They try to turn back but the fire eventually renders most of the panel electronics inoperative, including flight controls, leaving the aircraft in a state so it literally has "gone west".
 
Art VanDelay said:
The hatch is aft of the cockpit door but it goes way forward. Think of where the external door is for it - right behind the nose gear and it goes to the same huge compartment.

As for the breakers, there's no way they could put all the breakers up in the cockpit. There are some in the E&E compartment and also one or two back by the APU IIRC. Also a handful of them in each galley as well but that's for galley stuff of course.
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Reports are that ACARS transmissions ceased before audio communications ended with ATC. That would seem to support the theory of a slowly expanding fire progressively eating through wires/equipment and argue against a deliberate act by the pilot. In the case of a deliberate act he'd first have to find and throw the breaker (or a hijacker would somehow have to sneak into the compartment without the pilot or anyone else knowing!) after which one would think he'd not bother with further audio communication. Plus, I can see none of the D.C. "spooks" has explained the alleged garbled static laden last communication on 121.5 with another airliner. It was described as muffled, which could be consistent with the pilot or copilot talking with an oxygen mask on.
 
Art VanDelay said:
Keep in mind too that if I had a nickel for every time my ACARS lost datalink I'd be able to afford a Cessna Mustang ! ACARS drops offline all the time all by itself. Why it do I don't know maybe it's a stray homoetron in there ?
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Do you know how often ACARS makes transmissions? From my limited research, I get the impression that while the last ACARS (presumably over VHF) transmission occurred before the last audio and transponder responses, the time between ACARS transmissions would have been large enough that one can't really say when ACARS VHF stopped working. So ACARS VHF, audio comms VHF (I assume they were not on HF), and transponder transmitters could have failed simultaneously and still be consistent with reported information.

For what it is worth, according to the map assembled by some Wikipedian based on published radar information, the direction of the first turn appears to have placed them on a course for the nearest large airport, at Khota Bharu, which would be consistent with your theory (since one would divert to the nearest airport one could land at):
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https://www.google.com/maps/search/.../@6.0482626,104.3238342,855509m/data=!3m1!1e3
 

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Jim Logajan said:
From my limited research, I get the impression that while the last ACARS (presumably over VHF) transmission occurred before the last audio and transponder responses, the time between ACARS transmissions would have been large enough that one can't really say when ACARS VHF stopped working. So ACARS VHF, audio comms VHF (I assume they were not on HF), and transponder transmitters could have failed simultaneously and still be consistent with reported information.
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My research was right! ACARS transmissions are too intermittent during cruise to make the claim that the Malaysian Prime Minister made:

On Saturday Najib Razak stated that the Aircraft Communications Addressing and Reporting System (ACARS), which transmits key information about the plane to the ground, had been deliberately switched off while the plane was still flying over Malaysian territory north of Kuala Lumpur. The implication was that voice contact with the flight deck had taken place after the shutdown.

But today, the transport minister, Hishammuddin Hussein, said: “ The last ACARS transmission was 1.07am. It was supposed to transmit at 1.37am but that never happened.” Therefore no conclusion can be drawn that the last voice transmission, at 1.19am, took place after the shutdown began.From: http://www.independent.co.uk/news/world/asia/missing-malaysia-airlines-flight-mh370-confusion-deepens-over-missing-30-minutes-at-heart-of-mystery-engulfing-stricken-jet-9197375.html
 
Lindberg said:
Oh look. Information that they were certain of yesterday isn't true today. Surprise!

It's interesting that 999 times out of 1,000 when a plane goes missing it's because it crashed. But people are basing all sorts of wild theories on the garbage information coming out of this keystone cop operation.
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The Malaysian Transport Minister was correcting the Prime Minister - the former was being precise, the latter was either jumping to conclusions or was being fed junk from someone other than his Transport Minister.

The bulk of the nonsense being presented as "fact" is coming from places outside Malaysia - like the New York Times who are reporting total inventions by anonymous "senior" American officials. The latest being:"The first turn to the west that diverted the missing Malaysia Airlines plane from its planned flight path from Kuala Lumpur to Beijing was carried out through a computer system that was most likely programmed by someone in the plane’s cockpit who was knowledgeable about airplane systems, according to senior American officials."
http://www.nytimes.com/2014/03/18/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-flight.html?_r=0

Of course there is nothing to support any of the many assertions claimed in that sentence. The rest of the article is, to me, a WTF are they using for brains? The alleged "officials" and "investigators" the NYTimes is quoting from are making no attempts to view the data objectively and dispassionately; yielding this:"Investigators are scrutinizing radar tapes from when the plane first departed Kuala Lumpur because they believe the tapes will show that after the plane first changed its course, it passed through several pre-established “waypoints,” which are like virtual mile markers in the sky."
 
Fearless Tower said:
As if the theories aren't bad enough, after saying for several days that the FMS was reprogrammed prior to the last contact with ATC, they have reversed themselves, yet again, and now say that there is no indication that it was changed prior to ACARS going offline.

http://www.cnn.com/2014/03/23/world/asia/malaysia-airlines-plane/index.html?hpt=hp_t1

I've stated before, they either have alot more info that they have not released to the media or they are completely incompetent. I am strongly leading toward the incompetence theory.
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BAH! The news media appear to be the source of the original claim. If you go to Malaysia Airlines MH370 Flight Incident web page,
http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/my/en/site/dark-site.html
you will find the record shows that the Minister of Defense stated four days ago, on March 19:

"I am aware of speculation that additional waypoints were added to the aircraft’s flight routing. I can confirm that the aircraft flew on normal routing up until the waypoint IGARI. There is no additional waypoint on MH370’s documented flight plan, which depicts normal routing all the way to Beijing."

Invented facts continue to reverberate across the media for days because most of them are rushing to publish before doing the proper journalistic act of verifying their information.
 
dtuuri said:
Interesting plot of Inmarsat's logic at two cruising speeds, 450 & 400 kts:
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Speaking of Inmarsat - I'm impressed that their satellites record and log as much information as they do - even for heart beat pings. I would have thought that no information would have been recorded that allowed doppler analysis.
 
"New" news (or perhaps not since I'd read elsewhere that no official transcript of radio dialog had ever been issued by Malaysian authorities; wish I could re-find the site where I first learned that.):

Malaysia has released a new version of the final words supposedly spoken in the cockpit of missing Malaysia Airlines flight 370, and conceded that authorities are unsure whether they were spoken by the pilot or co-pilot.

"Good night Malaysian three seven zero"; was the last communication before all contact with the plane was lost and not "all right, good night" as previously stated, embattled Malaysian authorities said last night.

"We would like to confirm that the last conversation in the transcript between the air traffic controller and the cockpit is at 0119 (Malaysian Time) and is 'Good night Malaysian three seven zero';" the Ministry of Transport said in a statement.

The statement made no mention of words previously released to the media by Malaysian officials.

http://www.scmp.com/news/asia/article/1462276/good-night-malaysian-three-seven-zero-confusion-malaysia-releases-new
 
N801BH said:
Is this verifiable DATA .... Or just a theory based on the reception of a weak sigal in a parabolic antenna... Did the receive antenna have a prime focus feedhorn, or a cassagrain feed horn.. Has it been proven the incoming signal was not actually a weak sidelope and the theoretical arc is accurate ?

Where along this suggested arc does the plane lie.. Why are they "assuming" it is in the Indian Ocean and not in the northern section of the arc???
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The round trip time of the pings was known (knowing the time is part of the protocol they use,) so they knew the jet was somewhere on the surface of a sphere of known radius centered on the satellite. Where that sphere intersected the earth's sphere generated the arc that was published. The width of the arc was likely less than one light millisecond wide at worst (300 km).

It turns out that doppler affects have to be taken into account by the Inmarsat satellites because they would otherwise cause loss of comms, so they do track and correct for doppler shifts. They compared the recorded shifts with shifts from planes whose direction of travel they knew, and found them to be consistent with a southern route.

Here is a summary:

http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/content/dam/mas/master/en/pdf/Information_provided_to_MH370_investigation_by_UK_Air_Accidents_Investigation_Branch_Updated.pdf

Annex with images mentioned in above document:
http://www.malaysiaairlines.com/content/dam/mas/master/en/pdf/Annex_I_images.pdf
The signal strength wasn't used in determining the arc. So the nature of the antenna lobes is irrelevant.
 
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