Ownership decision/Insurance thoughts?

MuseChaser

Member
After owning a PA28-140 for many years with two partners, then buying one out, then buying the other out and becoming sole owner for the last four years or so (and that was, BY FAR, the most enjoyable part of the ownership), and coming to the realization that the ebbs and flows of my daily life made the frustrations and economic challenges of aircraft ownership outweigh the emotional and (few) practical advantages (at least for me), I (regrettably) sold my baby a week or two ago. After doing the math for the fixed costs I incur (hangar, annual) plus fuel, the break-even point for me of ownership vs renting would be thirty hours of flight time. After that, assuming no major maintenance expenses in a given year, ownership becomes less expensive than renting. Unfortunately, I've only flown more than 30 hours in a year twice in the years I've been a pilot. I'm hoping that changes, but figured, for a while, I'd continue flying as a renter and let someone else worry about scheduling the annuals and maintenance. If I find that I miss the freedom that ownership provides, I'll start the shopping process in earnest, and upgrade a bit in the process. To be determined...

Anyway, the question. The person to whom I sold my airplane is a wonderful fellow, and we have much in common. The airplane will still be spending time hangared at my home airport, unused, while he flies and travels in his more powerful high performance aircraft, and he has offered/insisted that I fly it whenever it's here, and has gone so far as to place me on his policy as a "named pilot." This, obviously, means a great deal to me, and is a tremendous kindness. Since I will also likely be renting from the FBO on the field when the plane is not available (which will be the majority of the time), I plan on securing renter's/borrower's insurance. For the times when I am flying my previous plane as a "named pilot," does having an additional renter's/borrower's policy have any benefit? I am more concerned about liability than hull coverage; absorbing the cost of replacing the Cherokee in the unfortunate instance of a catastrophic accident would not be a difficulty.

I do miss my plane, very much, already. I put a lot of work into her over the past four years, and she looks and flies better than she has since 2004. Tough decision. Thanks for any thoughts.
 
For the times when I am flying my previous plane as a "named pilot," does having an additional renter's/borrower's policy have any benefit?
My understanding has been that it would still be beneficial. Did some quick checking and found this:

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2014/december/23/renter-insurance

"Being listed on an aircraft owner’s insurance policy as a named pilot does not eliminate the need to have your own liability coverage. If an accident or other covered occurrence takes place while you are operating the aircraft, your status as a named pilot "would not exclude" the owner’s coverage from being applicable to the occurrence. However, as the pilot of a non-owned aircraft, you could still be a target for subrogation by an injured party seeking damages. (Subrogation means that you, as renter, could be substituted for the aircraft owner as the target of a legal action for damages.) Your policy for liability coverage for piloting a non-owned aircraft would protect you up to the policy limits if you were found liable in such a case."
 
Deepest condolences on selling your baby. 😢 We too no longer own because we don’t have the mission anymore to justify the costs. Agree about liability coverage!
 
I was once allowed use of a friends ride and was named on policy. I still carried my own to cover deductibles or uncovered liabilities from the owners policy. It must have been cheap because I don’t remember what it cost and I was broke at the time.
 
My understanding has been that it would still be beneficial. Did some quick checking and found this:

https://www.aopa.org/news-and-media/all-news/2014/december/23/renter-insurance

"Being listed on an aircraft owner’s insurance policy as a named pilot does not eliminate the need to have your own liability coverage. If an accident or other covered occurrence takes place while you are operating the aircraft, your status as a named pilot "would not exclude" the owner’s coverage from being applicable to the occurrence. However, as the pilot of a non-owned aircraft, you could still be a target for subrogation by an injured party seeking damages. (Subrogation means that you, as renter, could be substituted for the aircraft owner as the target of a legal action for damages.) Your policy for liability coverage for piloting a non-owned aircraft would protect you up to the policy limits if you were found liable in such a case."
Subrogation is when an insurance company pays their insured and then (taking the place of the insured/injured party as plaintiff) goes after the party who is at fault hoping to get insurance. If you are a named insured, that insurance company can’t pursue a subrogation action against you. They’d just deny coverage for whatever reason they believe voids coverage. So this article is confusing.
 
Subrogation is when an insurance company pays their insured and then (taking the place of the insured/injured party as plaintiff) goes after the party who is at fault hoping to get insurance. If you are a named insured, that insurance company can’t pursue a subrogation action against you. They’d just deny coverage for whatever reason they believe voids coverage. So this article is confusing.
Maybe they just used the wrong term and meant "you could still be a target for litigation by an injured party", but then it goes on to define subrogation, maybe wrongly? Not a lawyer so IDKWITA.
 
Subrogation essentially means to take the place of. So if you run into me and don’t have insurance, my insurance company pays me, then brings a subrogation action against you. I’ve assigned my claim to the insurance Comapny, in essence.

Somehow I’m getting emails of replies in the forum. Any idea how to turn that off?
 
Subrogation essentially means to take the place of. So if you run into me and don’t have insurance, my insurance company pays me, then brings a subrogation action against you. I’ve assigned my claim to the insurance Comapny, in essence.

Somehow I’m getting emails of replies in the forum. Any idea how to turn that off?
Click on your name up on the toolbar then preferences.
 
Somehow I’m getting emails of replies in the forum. Any idea how to turn that off?
Click on your name at the top right of your screen, next to the message and bell/notification icons, then on "preferences." Uncheck the item indicated by the orange arrows in this attached image. You can also uncheck the item indicated by the black arrow if you don't want email notifications of private conversation messages, too.
Preferences.JPG
 
But you gave a better more thorough answer.
That certainly wasn't my intention. I like to sow confusion and leave a trail of chaos behind me wherever I go. Unfortunately, without owning an airplane, I have more time on my hands now...🥺 ;)
 
That certainly wasn't my intention. I like to sow confusion and leave a trail of chaos behind me wherever I go. Unfortunately, without owning an airplane, I have more time on my hands now...🥺 ;)
I can relate to that (no airplane and no life) although I do have a job I’m supposed to be working at.
 
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