Passenger Misconduct

[Palmpilot]

It cost him 50 grand, in this case:

https://www.foxnews.com/travel/unit...ay-50g-hitting-flight-attendant-divert-alaska

A man from California has been ordered to pay nearly $50,000 in restitution after attacking a United Airlines flight attendant last February, and forcing the Tokyo-bound plane to divert to Alaska.

Seksan Kumtong, of North Hollywood, appeared in court earlier this week, where he was sentenced to five years’ probation and ordered to reimburse United Airlines for expenses incurred during the diversion, which included the costs of meals and lodging for the rest of the flight’s displaced passengers and crew — expenses that totaled $49,793.

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

Bad move for that California guy. Wonder what his problem was. Do the courts take payments or do you have to pay the fine in one lump sum?

Yes, interesting question what his issue was. Apparently was drunk and became belligerent when denied more alcohol.

No one was apparently hurt; however he did say he would kill the attendant. Since he grabbed the tie of the attendant, seems like attendant was likely male.

Restitution seems about right to me. I think he would have to pay United and probably could do a payment plan.

He hopefully also had a court ordered evaluation for alcoholism. Definitely meets some of the screening criteria!

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

Well, I think in terms of the pertinent issues for this thread, one can ignore the issue of whether cloth masks are effective or not in preventing the spread of Covid-19. It is probably sufficient to note that what @Lindberg says about the cause of unruly passengers is true. The majority of the complaints are related to the mask mandate. And secondly to note that a substantial fraction of the population does not believe the masks really work (whether that is true or not).

Thus it is an attempt at strict enforcement of an FAA policy which is rather unpopular. That is the sort of situation which is likely to lead to unruly behavior.

I also tend to agree that packing people in on commercial flights is a contributing factor to unruly behavior as well. Puts most people in a bad mood to start with. It is not a pleasant experience. I frankly preferred it when the middle seats were all left open, but that is obviously not economically sustainable at those low prices.

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

You hit the nail on the head. The FAA believes there is an acceptable level of pax misconduct.

Shouldn't this really be up to the carriers and the pilots implementing their companies' policies?

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

Should each carrier have the ability to determine whether or not a case should be referred for federal civil money penalty action?

Don't they presently? Sometimes they will ignore it and other times refer, right?

Hypothetically, my preference would be that the carriers have even more discretion and simply can write into their contracts what they want. You smoke on their flight, you agree you will pay them $20,000, whatever they like. There is no inherent reason this needs to be a one size fits all situation.

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

I'm just floored by the number of people who think they have a right to ignore crew-member instructions when they ride in someone else's aircraft.

I think at least a large part of this attitude arises from the extremely regulated and non-competitive environment the airlines are operating in. There is a real blurring for the average passenger of what is an airline rule and what is an FAA rule and what is a TSA rule. It seems like just one big "system" to them and they lose sight of the private property rights involved.

I also think the airlines love pushing off unpopular rules as being the responsibility of some Federal agency rather than actually having to answer to their customers about it.

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

I certainly agree that equal treatment under the law is the ideal. Though often not achieved. And I also agree that providing large civil penalties in a "zero tolerance" policy is a poor idea for this nature of offense compared to trying the other approaches you mention such as warning notices or counseling.

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

Melodrama. I have flown multiple times to and from Australia and New Zealand during this time, a journey that's typically over 24 hours, with a mask mandatory throughout the entire time. It was trivial. Anyone who claims they can't cope with it on a flight of a few hours and is being "suffocated" is simply looking for attention and needs to grow up.

I think it depends on the type of mask. The cloth masks are fairly comfortable. OTOH, I find wearing an N95 properly definitely increases the sense of respiratory effort and is tiresome over the course of a few hours.

I don’t think I would generally waste one on a flight itself since the air is so clean. OTOH, the crowds going to and from the plane concern me more.

We tread on thin ice here however.

In any case, it really should be up to the airlines to decide what they think is best. But I am sure the larger carriers prefer a Federal mandate as then they can say “it’s not our fault”.

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

Also what is actually required to meet the Federal mandate? Can one simply wear something with 2 mm holes or a clear plastic face shield?

ETA. Order is available here - https://www.cdc.gov/quarantine/pdf/Mask-Order-CDC_GMTF_01-29-21-p.pdf

It says cannot be a shield but must be a “material” that covers the nose and mouth. No specification of pore size. So it seems like some lace material can meet the requirements.

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

maybe you need to consider the impact on people with degraded respiratory function. Not everyone has 98+% O2 levels.

Good point. Especially not an 8500’ cabin altitude. I see plenty of people mildly out of breath around Jackson Hole and that is 6500’.