Severe alcoholism

R

Rush

Active member
No not me, I can barely stand the stuff. I just watched “Intervention“ season 21 episode 2 “Robin”. 42 year old commercial pilot, used to fly Michael Bolton around, but started drinking heavily, got fired from all his piloting jobs, hit rock bottom ended up in rehab.

He drank for 20 years, now has been sober since 2017 according to the show and has several job offers as a pilot.

This is Canada. My question is, what’s the alcoholism routine in Canada? Do they have a HIMS like thing? And is it even possible in the U.S. to ever fly revenue after drinking heavily for two decades? Is there a pathway back from that?
 
lbfjrmd said:
I am not sure about Canada. In the states this pilot you mention could attain certification following the HIMS protocol. Google it and see the details.
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Maybe that show exaggerated how bad he was for entertainment. But he was stumbling falling down drunk supposedly for 20 years, all while building a flying career except for cutting back when first licensed for a while, iirc, but went back to drinking and eventually got caught and fired. He’s 42 and been drinking half his life? I guess I’m thinking there should be some sort of lifelong ban at a certain point of long term abuse. On the other hand he’s very knowledgeable and apparently a great pilot when sober and I understand the concept of forgiveness with lifelong close monitoring but, not sure I want him flying with me as a pax in an airliner. Does that make me too judgmental?
 
Under HIMS in the US he would be very carefully monitored. Random drug screens. Attendance at AA. Psychological testing. Etc.

I agree there is always a risk of relapse. Not sure how high it is with this sort of monitoring.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Under HIMS in the US he would be very carefully monitored. Random drug screens. Attendance at AA. Psychological testing. Etc.

I agree there is always a risk of relapse. Not sure how high it is with this sort of monitoring.
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And is Canada as stringent? I guess he has been 5 years sober since 2017.

I am not the asshole that attacks a contrite anon looking for help in “medical matters”, but there’s a difference between getting one DUI way back in college, and getting to the point 20 years later you’re drinking all day from the minute you wake up, don’t eat any food, are back in mom’s basement, and are in danger of imminent organ failure, which is what this guy appeared to be on the program. For that matter, allowing yourself to star in an “Intervention“ episode doesn’t exactly show good judgment if you’re concerned about your reputation - as a pilot.

I was just wondering if Canada was more lax than the U.S. and is letting this case slide by when the U.S. might not but it sounds like even in the U.S. there’s a chance to come back from being that far gone.
 
Rush said:
And is Canada as stringent? I guess he has been 5 years sober since 2017.

I am not the asshole that attacks a contrite anon looking for help in “medical matters”, but there’s a difference between getting one DUI way back in college, and getting to the point 20 years later you’re drinking all day from the minute you wake up, don’t eat any food, are back in mom’s basement, and are in danger of imminent organ failure, which is what this guy appeared to be on the program. For that matter, allowing yourself to star in an “Intervention“ episode doesn’t exactly show good judgment if you’re concerned about your reputation - as a pilot.

I was just wondering if Canada was more lax than the U.S. and is letting this case slide by when the U.S. might not but it sounds like even in the U.S. there’s a chance to come back from being that far gone.
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I understand your points and concerns, and share them. Having said that, people can and DO make powerful changes in themselves. Removing any possibility of redemption seems unnecessarily cruel, and also removes a very powerful incentive for one to MAKE those important life-saving changes. As long as incredibly fool-proof monitoring steps are taken, and fastidiously followed by both the examiners and examinee, I am in favor of rewarding those who conscientiously and demonstrably turn their lives around.
 
Another item to consider is how large the risk of relapse resulting in a bad outcome is relative to other risks involved. The FAA medical requirements may not actually do a particularly good job of preventing bad outcomes. Consider the cases we have all heard of where pilots have a 1st class medical and then unexpectedly have a heart attack on the flight deck. It is rare, but so is relapsing while on all the monitoring. There is likely no way to completely eliminate all risk of alcoholism or some other medical problem incapacitating a pilot or causing an error and bad outcome.

I do not know if Canada is laxer or more stringent. I suppose one could try and research the rates of these problems to get a sense of it.
 
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