United with record profits

[PeterNSteinmetz]

Interesting that they think one factor may be people having more flex time after the pandemic and so able to take more small trips.

https://apnews.com/article/077ae344a38cfca6043631d54830f9d8

 

[Rush]

The pandemic really accelerated the lie flat movement in the U.S.

 

[Bob Noel]

"lie flat" ?????

 

[Rush]

"lie flat" ?????

It started in China and is catching on here. In China the young people figured out that unless you are high in the Party your fate is to work hard for not much money, and so the “middle class” started a trend of working as little as possible. Instead of a career, they work small part time jobs temporarily then quit and do nothing for a while, or live with their parents. They don’t try to buy property or consume much but become minimalists, working as little as possible because there is no point. It is becoming a huge problem for China because of the demographics, not enough young people to replace the old retirees and now what young they have don’t want to work.

This is what you get with communism, when you remove ”greed” and profit motive from the system. It’s also what you get with the one child policy which led to too many males and not enough females. Men without wives and families lack motivation to work. They sit around and play video games instead.

So the Chinese invented the term “lying flat” meaning I’m not going to bother going to work. The idea is spreading to other countries for some of the same reasons and some different reasons.

 

[Bob Noel]

sort of like the (alledged) old Soviet saying, which is something like "as long as they pretend to pay us, we'll pretend to work"

 

[Rush]

sort of like the (alledged) old Soviet saying, which is something like "as long as they pretend to pay us, we'll pretend to work"

Yep and the amazing thing is there’s a lot of people who can’t connect those dots.

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

So the Chinese invented the term “lying flat” meaning I’m not going to bother going to work. The idea is spreading to other countries for some of the same reasons and some different reasons.

Nice explanation, thanks. I'm glad we raised our children with such a strong work ethic that despite not strictly having a need to work, they work anyway, in order to be a productive member of society.

 

[Winthrop]

I think "lie flat" has a connotation of not simply of sloth, but keeping your head down. A strong work ethic and desire to standout are dangerous traits in most societies. Throughout most of history the dominant strategy for the average person has been mediocrity. The concept of the American Dream (though essentially dead now) was the exception to that rule.

 

[Winthrop]

Interesting that they think one factor may be people having more flex time after the pandemic and so able to take more small trips.

https://apnews.com/article/077ae344a38cfca6043631d54830f9d8

As to the subject of United Airline Holdings Inc (NASDAQ UAL) posting record profits, I doubt it has anything to do with flights. United has two main businesses, government subsidies and marketing credit cards. The subsidies increased during the pandemic as did the strings attached to them decreased. Then with people holding their credit card points for longer the profit margins increased. Remember these points are essentially interest free deposits, so with protracted carry from the pandemic coupled with inflation, United makes out rather well.

 

[Rush]

View attachment 90
I think "lie flat" has a connotation of not simply of sloth, but keeping your head down. A strong work ethic and desire to standout are dangerous traits in most societies. Throughout most of history the dominant strategy for the average person has been mediocrity. The concept of the American Dream (though essentially dead now) was the exception to that rule.

Yep. I don’t think it’s associated with sloth, but rather resignation in a system with no hope of bettering yourself through work. The upward mobility of the American Dream due to a mostly free market was rare historically and is absent in China. When upward mobility is possible (carrot), and you have children depending on you (stick) and no government handouts, then you are motivated to work. Remove one or both of those incentives, the human default is laziness. Humans need a reason to get up in the morning.

 

[Winthrop]

Humans need a reason to get up in the morning.

What you might see in China would be the extreme end of the Laffer Curve where work might make you worse off. Work hard, piss of local party boss by making him or her look bad and get in trouble.

We see that to some extent in the US now. Imagine a recent immigrant who tries his or her hand at running say a hotdog cart, but runs afoul of some health or labor regulation and now despite their work is worse off than they would have been had they simply taken a government handout.

So now you have a reason to stay in bed and not stick you head out of the shadows.

 

[Rush]

What you might see in China would be the extreme end of the Laffer Curve where work might make you worse off. Work hard, piss of local party boss by making him or her look bad and get in trouble.

We see that to some extent in the US now. Imagine a recent immigrant who tries his or her hand at running say a hotdog cart, but runs afoul of some health or labor regulation and now despite their work is worse off than they would have been had they simply taken a government handout.

So now you have a reason to stay in bed and not stick you head out of the shadows.

Yes! This is also in effect at large corporations at middle management level in the U.S. You might think your job is to improve the product or process, you make suggestions for empowering the employees so that decisions can be made at lower levels for immediate improvement only to find that’s not at all what upper management wants from you. Power is flowing ever more upwards, not down, and what the production line is to do is comply with ever growing numbers of bureaucratic rules having nothing to do with making the product and your job as a manager is to see that they are followed without complaint.

The trend toward stifling small businesses with regulations and having them bought up by big companies means more and more jobs (workers and managers) suffer this fate of unfulfilling and micromanaged activity in a soulless megacorporation instead of working at a small company focused on utilizing every person’s talents with the priority of making the actual product the best it can be, and everyone enjoys the work and is proud of their contribution.

I’ve always been a free market capitalist but these days I describe myself as a “small business capitalist“. I used to defend large corporations as having efficiencies of scale, and it’s true they do, but they too often are enabled by unholy alliances with government, or each other, to simply grow in power so that they no longer need to compete on the basis of quality or care about keeping their employees happy.

Thus the profit motive, the engine of a free market economy, becomes profit for the elite at the top, with kickbacks to politicians, when the proper role of profit motive should be at the level of individual entrepreneur and the common man. It is going missing, so the common man is now checking out: “lying flat”.

It seems capitalism cycles through this, starting out great, ending with monopolies and corruption. It’s a terrible system, though all the others are worse.

 

[Winthrop]

I used to defend large corporations as having efficiencies of scale, and it’s true they do, but they too often are enabled by unholy alliances with government . . .

Could not agree more, the traditional concepts of efficiency have given way to "rent seeking" by which larger companies simply manipulate the state into distorting the market to suit them.