Personally I agree that while most stall spin accidents happen too low to recover, it is important to have done them to reduce the fear of the unknown.
WSJ article on Spin Training
- Thread starter PeterNSteinmetz
- Start date
TexasTailwheel
New member
I don't even think it's so much "fear of the unknown" but being initially overwhelmed if you inadvertently get into something you don't recognize. I'll say that during my CFI spin training, the first spin we did, I was definitely temporarily disoriented during the first spin. If that happens the first time down low, without someone to walk you through what's going on, it's going to be bad.
MuseChaser
Member
Some rambling thoughts...
During a recent BFR, I reiterated a conversation to my CFI that we had a few years ago, when I had compared my comfort level in automobiles with my (much lower) comfort and confidence level in my airplane. Comfort, as in competency, and NOT complacency. As a long-time "road rat" with untold hours and miles in the driver's seat of some great handling (and not-to-great handling) automobiles, I've got a very confident handle on exactly how my vehicles will handle pretty much any situation. Driving home from a gig on dark back country roads last night, for instance, I had the opportunity to avoid two different deer and one coyote that could have been bad situations had I not been through similar "maneuvers" a zillion times previously. When I taught my kids to drive, once they learned the very, very basics, one of the first things I did was take them to a snowy large parking lot and teach them how to handle skids, progressing to controlled donuts, etc. They're all excellent winter drivers now.
Too rambling... back to the point..
During my flight training, yes, we did lots of stall awareness and recovery drills, unusual attitude recovery on and off instruments, "steep" turns up to 45-50 degrees of bank, extreme slow flight (40mph in my PA28-140), go-rounds, power-off landings, simulated engine failures in flight and during takeoff, etc., but nothing that ever really gave me the confidence to know where the "edge" is during extreme handling situations, like avoiding an impending mid-air collision (in the almost always avoidable case of one or more pilots simply doing VERY careless things that placed them in that situation). One never knows what one will be dealt, and knowing how an aircraft will behave during emergency maneuvers and what is and isn't possible, at least in my opinion, should be more integrated into routine flight instruction.
Anyway, after discussing my difference in competency/comfort levels with avoidance/emergency maneuvers in cars vs. aircraft, my CFI had me do some ground-referenced slow flight canyon turns, some avoidance 180 turns (sort of a not-quite hammerhead) and a few "impossible turns" back to the airport after takeoff at about 600' AGL (successfully, with lights winds). It was a wonderful flight. I still have much, MUCH to learn,(PPSEL back in 2004, but just flew my 200th hour a week or so ago.. life keeps getting in the way) but this new step was another one in the right direction. Spin training certainly is another step forward, and should be required.
During a recent BFR, I reiterated a conversation to my CFI that we had a few years ago, when I had compared my comfort level in automobiles with my (much lower) comfort and confidence level in my airplane. Comfort, as in competency, and NOT complacency. As a long-time "road rat" with untold hours and miles in the driver's seat of some great handling (and not-to-great handling) automobiles, I've got a very confident handle on exactly how my vehicles will handle pretty much any situation. Driving home from a gig on dark back country roads last night, for instance, I had the opportunity to avoid two different deer and one coyote that could have been bad situations had I not been through similar "maneuvers" a zillion times previously. When I taught my kids to drive, once they learned the very, very basics, one of the first things I did was take them to a snowy large parking lot and teach them how to handle skids, progressing to controlled donuts, etc. They're all excellent winter drivers now.
Too rambling... back to the point..
During my flight training, yes, we did lots of stall awareness and recovery drills, unusual attitude recovery on and off instruments, "steep" turns up to 45-50 degrees of bank, extreme slow flight (40mph in my PA28-140), go-rounds, power-off landings, simulated engine failures in flight and during takeoff, etc., but nothing that ever really gave me the confidence to know where the "edge" is during extreme handling situations, like avoiding an impending mid-air collision (in the almost always avoidable case of one or more pilots simply doing VERY careless things that placed them in that situation). One never knows what one will be dealt, and knowing how an aircraft will behave during emergency maneuvers and what is and isn't possible, at least in my opinion, should be more integrated into routine flight instruction.
Anyway, after discussing my difference in competency/comfort levels with avoidance/emergency maneuvers in cars vs. aircraft, my CFI had me do some ground-referenced slow flight canyon turns, some avoidance 180 turns (sort of a not-quite hammerhead) and a few "impossible turns" back to the airport after takeoff at about 600' AGL (successfully, with lights winds). It was a wonderful flight. I still have much, MUCH to learn,(PPSEL back in 2004, but just flew my 200th hour a week or so ago.. life keeps getting in the way) but this new step was another one in the right direction. Spin training certainly is another step forward, and should be required.
PilotDave
New member
This is my stance as well.
Any flying with an instructor that explores the edge of the envelope is good experience. The trick is doing it safely. It’s also getting harder to find instructors capable of those lessons.
I think we are past to point of being able to require spins in primary training. The pool of available instructors truly capable is to small now.
Aerobatic training is quite good for this. Very good confidence builder.
I tell my students, I have done aerobatic training, so whatever attitude you can put this in, I can get us out of it. But of course I try hard to keep them inside the normal training envelope. Once or twice I had a student almost start into a spin, but fixed it immediately as we were not in an aircraft certified for that maneuver. It was an older C150 that really did want to spin to the left.