To mask or not to mask?

[PeterNSteinmetz]

A friend of the family...their daughter works in a nursing home. She and a bunch of her coworkers tested positive. Apparently they were reusing masks and wearing rain coats .....and something went wrong. They obviously weren't cleaning them properly or not properly fitted.

30 of the 40 residents on her wing were positive for COVID.

If you are a care worker, I suspect it is very difficult to not be infected with SARS Cov-2 if you have daily exposure. Eventually something will go wrong or simply overwhelm the barriers in the course of several months given the number of cases.

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

There are currently a few ways we can protect those who are vulnerable.
1. everyone where a cloth mask or better in public.

Considering the leadership, you can judge which one of the above three is most likely to be able to implement.

Tim

I would agree if this were changed to "try and protect those who are vulnerable".

As I have discussed here at some length, the recommendations to wear cloth masks in public to slow the spread of Covid-19 are not supported by a consensus of scientific opinion. Reviews of the scientific literature on this are mixed at best and provide a poor argument that it will help. The empirical evidence they slow the spread is almost non-existent. Some experts in the field are concerned that the use of cloth masks could be counter-productive.

This lack of consensus in the scientific community is reflected in the divided recommendations by CDC and the WHO.

Personally I don't hold out much hope that politicians will ever be making policy decisions guided by rational thought.

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

Well I disagree. I have many family friends in the medical field; mostly nurses and few docs. A fair number of them work in the COVID wings of hospitals. Not one has tested positive for COVID-19;

I do wish the best for all health care worker and especially those of my correspondents here. Appears one estimate of the rate so far is about 6% (https://www.reuters.com/article/us-...covid-19-worldwide-nurses-group-idUSKBN22I1XH). That is not related to the dose, in terms of how much time they are spending.

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

9 outta 10 docs would not agree with that.

COVID is an airborne virus....that spreads thru the "air" and lingers or floats in the air for hours. Masks do help....especially ones that "filter" well like the N95 kind.

I am discussing the use of the cloth masks by the public. Have you read the 4 reviews on this question? Let me know if you want me to repost the links.

There are a lot of studies that bear on this subject though very little actual empirical data. To start to understand them all, I really do think it is best to read the reviews first. You will find they are basically evenly split on the public health recommendation for wearing cloth masks by the public (which would sort of correspond to a 5 out of 10). Short of that, just look at the CDC versus the World Health Organization recommendations, which are on opposite sides of that recommendation. Beyond that, to look at primary data and studies, one really has to go and essentially perform a review, that is, locate all the primary data, read and understand it, then try and critically evaluate and synthesize the findings. Looking at just one or another primary study is not able to resolve the issue because the question is not that simple.

Frankly, I don't think any amount of re-review is likely to change this lack of consensus. What is needed is more empirical data on the use of the cloth masks by the public and its effect on the spread of disease.

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

'Tis better to err on the side of caution......

As a general principle I certainly agree, and there are experts on this who argue precisely the precautionary principle should apply. Then on the other hand there are experts in about equal numbers who argue that making a public request to wear cloth masks is actually not the cautious thing to do at all and may cause harm. That's part of the reason there is the split between the recommendations of the CDC and the WHO and the scientific reviews are equally mixed.

Definitely agree that more empirical data on the actual effect of making such a recommendation will help.

To quote Twain....There are lies, damned lies and statistics.

Haha. There we will likely disagree. Since I work on statistical analysis of neural data for a living I naturally have a different view. Probability and statistics are what we use to properly describe a world in which most things are probabilistic. (Though I do understand how they can be used in very misleading ways -- especially in public policy.)

 

[PeterNSteinmetz]

There are many things with this pandemic that don't make sense.. *MANY*, but asking people to wash their hands and wear a mask when they're near someone else doesn't seem outlandish

A car rental shop closing at 3 instead of 5, that doesn't make sense.. a beach being open from 2-6 doesn't make sense.. but asking people to wear a mask when they're near a crowded place with other people.. what's wrong with that?

I think the people that don't like them have a number of objections. Firstly, they are uncomfortable. Secondly, it is for an uncertain benefit -- some experts think a public recommendation for everyone to wear cloth masks might actually do harm. Finally, this is the USA. If the government says everyone has to do something, no doubt there will be those that refuse if possible. Personally I sort of like that independent streak, but it does lead to some crazy behavior at times.