U/A and Dr. Dao (2017)

Palmpilot said:
"A poor customer service attitude at United resulting in law enforcement being called to resolve a contract dispute" seemed to downplay the direct connection between his refusal to obey crewmember instructions and the calling of law enforcement.
Please see my post #176 above. I believe I made it clear I did not wish to ascribe any particular levels of importance to one or another factor in that post. I also did not there ascribe causal connections between them.

If one wants to discuss the relative contributions of these factors and their potential causal connections, I would suggest first reading the Wikipedia overview at https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_Express_Flight_3411_incident . This contains an overview and links to interviews with other passengers on the plane (one can track down the original sources from there if one wishes not to trust Wikipedia on this.)

Those quotes overwhelmingly assign primary blame for this escalation in violence on the UA supervisor Danielle Hill, whose apparent power struggle over this issue escalated the level of confrontation significantly. She evidently made a snap judgement to call law enforcement rather than considering alternatives or some other way of diplomatically resolving the situation.

That set of facts argues, I think strongly, that the poor customer service attitude of UA, manifested by employing a supervisor such as Ms. Hill, was a primary contributing factor.

At that point Dr. Dao could be regarded as in a civil negotiation to resolve what he, with some reasonable cause, believed was a valid contract dispute. Subsequently, in the presence of a hostile and inflexible attitude by Ms. Hill and with the police, he likely violated a Federal regulation or law.

It is multi-causal, since if Ms. Hill had been better at dealing with this, or Dr. Dao had realized it was then time to just give it up and find another way home, the violence would not have occurred.

Since Ms. Hill was supposedly the professional in dealing with these situations (which Dr. Dao was not) and since her bad actions preceded those of Dr. Dao, I am inclined to assign greater fault to her. The counter-argument if trying to finely parse blame would be that it is worse to break a Federal regulation or law than it is to simply be a supervisor with a terrible attitude.

My point when entering this thread, however, was somewhat different. Namely that it was a bad idea to escalate the situation by calling the police when other likely less violent alternatives were available. It appears Ms. Hill did not give much serious thought to that and was encouraged in her attitude by UA. It appears her attitude was one of being annoyed by the last minute request to put these 4 employees on the plane, that she took it out on the passengers, and then adopted a "I'll show you whose boss" attitude with Dr. Dao.
 
kayoh190 said:
I've gotta ask Peter - why are you still beating this drum? It sure sounds to me like you have some axe to grind with United.
Thanks for asking but no I don't have any axe to grind with United. What I was concerned about when I originally entered this thread was the attitude expressed by some posters that people deserve to have the police use violence against them because they are peacefully refusing to cooperate with a law and that companies like UA should be calling the police rather than trying to peacefully resolve contract disputes. I do care about those issues.

I only recently brought up this necro thread (post #134) in order to report on my research which failed to obtain the exhibits in Long's complaint. I thought that was curious.

Of course, per usual PoA ways, this then starting wandering over all these old issues. I do think my post #187 was the first post in this thread to discuss Ms. Hill's involvement in that is new. I do also think that bears heavily upon the question of fault here. I'm sorry no one, including myself, had looked into this earlier.

But if you are asking as a moderator and feel I have violated a PoA rule, please advise, and I will conform.
 
schmookeeg said:
If subway franchise #714 in Topeka refuses to honor my 12-stamped sub club card and deliver me the contractually-promised free sandwich, I absolutely have a right to protest and feel cheated.
You could probably even walk around with a big truthful negative sign on the public sidewalk or street in front of their place of business if you wanted -- because that is not a trespass on private property. (IANAL so consult before trying that in your locality).
 
I wonder if the Captain ever came back to speak with Dr. Dao? I did not see that mentioned in the history on Wikipedia. Sometimes people with some familiarity with aviation recognize the authority of the PIC, even if they are failing to follow the regulations regarding following crew member instructions.
 
Sluggo63 said:
I don't think any Captain out there is going to leave the cockpit and involve themselves in a dispute with a passenger. Nothing good would come from that.
...
When stuff like this happens are the times that I feel extremely happy that there's nothing but boxes behind me.
I have seen it happen and is why I brought it up. As noted by @Tarheelpilot and @Larry in TN the Captain is PIC and has ultimate authority and it is up to him/her. Sometimes that can be used help more peacefully resolve a problem than calling LEOs. And yes, hauling human beings is a different set of responsibilities than hauling inanimate objects.
 
Sluggo63 said:
Ok... I'll let the "real" airline pilots speak up here.
Could even be set up as a survey I suppose. I'll be interested to see the responses and how common / uncommon that is.

And, by the way, I worked for the airline in question before my current gig.
Did you intend that with some irony? Sorry I just had to ask given the context of this thread.
 
Sluggo63 said:
Would you, as a Captain, get out of your seat and go to the back in order to resolve a dispute with an unruly passenger (whether at the gate or airborne)? If you were an FO, what would you tell your Captain if he was going to the back to engage in some conflict resolution with a passenger?
Of course back in the day Captains on ships carried a firearm to act as law enforcement. This was apparently more common on airplanes into the early 60s, I believe primarily to protect the mail. But even today the trained Captains and FO's can carry firearms and I presume have some LEO powers in that connection.

I can't remember if the people called in the Dao case were carrying firearms. I don't think they were.
 
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