Yes lasers are dangerous to shine at aircraft - but ...

PeterNSteinmetz

PeterNSteinmetz

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Has anyone actually ever been physically hurt by people shining lasers at aircraft? Seems like more felony creep. Felonies used to be really serious crimes like murder, kidnapping, rape, armed robbery etc.

Which is not to say that actually doing this shouldn't be a form of criminal assault of course.

www.airguide.info

New Colorado bill would create felony for shining laser at aircraft

A new bill moving through the Colorado House would create a state felony charge for anyone caught shining a laser at helicopters or planes. The proposed law would allow local police to investigate and charge laser strike cases involving aircraft, instead of waiting for federal investigators...
www.airguide.info
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Has anyone actually ever been physically hurt by people shining lasers at aircraft? Seems like more felony creep. Felonies used to be really serious crimes like murder, kidnapping, rape, armed robbery etc.

Which is not to say that actually doing this shouldn't be a form of criminal assault of course.

www.airguide.info

New Colorado bill would create felony for shining laser at aircraft

A new bill moving through the Colorado House would create a state felony charge for anyone caught shining a laser at helicopters or planes. The proposed law would allow local police to investigate and charge laser strike cases involving aircraft, instead of waiting for federal investigators...
www.airguide.info
Click to expand...

If there were any known cases I suspect the Wikipedia article on the subject would had it included: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lasers_and_aviation_safety
I couldn't help but notice that one comment to it in the Talk section noted This is a highly detailed article for what amounts to "Pointing bright lights at airplanes could theoretically cause a crash."
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Has anyone actually ever been physically hurt by people shining lasers at aircraft?
Click to expand...
The reports I've read show about 30 injuries a year but none permanent that I've seen. However, with over 9000 laser/aircraft reported incidents a year its more on the distraction factor than the injury factor. The FAA has kept a database on these incidents which is similar to the drone/aircraft incident database and viewable by the public.
Seems like more felony creep.
Click to expand...
Not really as it is already a federal crime to shine lasers at aircraft. Seems they simply want to codify it at the state so they can act on the incidents without waiting for the feds to show up. I believe several other states have similar laws.
 
Is it a Federal felony? Many things are!

One of those items where it seems simply prosecutable as a normal assault.
 
Oh dear. And yet there are 9000 incidents a year. As always, if your prohibition does not work because people persist in doing something that seems to them like it does not really harm others, make the punishment more Draconian!
 
Along the same lines, several times around Christmas, I've read articles about unintentional laser / plane incidents due to those holiday light displays made with lasers....if you allow your Christmas display to shine into an airplane, is that a felony too? I actually had this happen to me once: I suddenly was panned with a laser, and a few seconds later, it happened again so I saw where it was coming from. I flew past, and could see it was just a Christmas light display (I did nothing as far as reporting it, btw, as I figured "no harm no foul" and that it was a freak thing). Maybe the Christmas displays use very low power lasers, but it seemed to do nothing to my eyes that I could tell, and was just more startling than anything.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
As always, if your prohibition does not work because people persist in doing something that seems to them like it does not really harm others, make the punishment more Draconian!
Click to expand...
The big problem is most violators have no clue its against the law. Same with a 14 year old flying his toy drone at 600 feet. How do you educate people? Then again a couple live-streamed public hangings might get the message across to the masses.....;)
tawood said:
.if you allow your Christmas display to shine into an airplane, is that a felony too?
Click to expand...
There is a program that lets you register your "Xmas" or other laser display. Whether that gets you off the hook I dont know. However, I think "intent" will come into to play if things go south for your average "Clark Griswold."
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Or with the ongoing lack of any serious harm, perhaps just recognize that these things happen and not worry about it so much?
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I think if the incidents of laser hits... and drone incidents were not increasing every year and had stabilized at a much lower rate, I think your "wait and see" method would be appropriate. However, in the risk assessments I've read its becoming more statistically a matter of when a laser or drone will cause a significant accident than if they will. The old "holes in the Swiss cheese lining up and so on." And this is not just a US issue either. The ICAO is starting to get involved in these matters which could open a whole different track on these issues.
 
I imagine we would both agree this depends on the actual likelihood of a laser strike causing a significant accident. Does anyone have even an informed guess on how likely that is?

As the number of incidents increases and cases accumulate over time, the best estimator of the rate, the mean, goes down.

Clearly if one blinds the sole pilot of an aircraft for any significant amount of time, a serious accident becomes rather likely. One could probably use the rates of such problems in two person crew aircraft to figure this out.
 
Coincidentally, I visited an EAA chapter today where a member described his laser incident. He was flying solo at pattern altitude at night when he got hit. He completely lost his night vision. Could only see the brightest objects on the ground, and couldn't see his own panel.

He managed to turn the panel lighting all the way up, but the runway lights were too dim to see, even after 15 minutes. His plane was equipped with synthetic vision, and after a couple of approaches, he managed to set the plane down without damage. Took his eyes a week to recover.

He worked with the Feds and the guy was caught. The laser had 1000x the power of a common laser pointer, with an aperture about five inches across. Don't know where the perp bought it, but he was not some brilliant nerd. When the cops came to arrest him he was already in jail on an unrelated charge.

Ron Wanttaja
 
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PeterNSteinmetz said:
Does anyone have even an informed guess on how likely that is?
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The one thing the incident data above doesn't convey are the numbers of close calls that led to an emergency situation like the one Ron mentions above. I personally know of 4 helicopters that made emergency landings in the last 2 years due to laser hits where the pilot or crew in one instance became disorientated due to the laser. Training and skill were the determining factors vs a smoking hole. In one case the aircraft went inverted. So the informed guess is "tomorrow" as we are on borrowed time.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
Oh dear. And yet there are 9000 incidents a year. As always, if your prohibition does not work because people persist in doing something that seems to them like it does not really harm others, make the punishment more Draconian!
Click to expand...
The magic wand of legislation. If people are doing something that's illegal, let's make it even more illegal.
 
I was wondering - why do people do this?

And then I realized probably in most cases for the same reasons I have pointed lasers at things. It is amusing to see how far away you can get the dot to land on something. I suppose some people actually intend to annoy or even endanger, but I bet it most cases people shine the laser at an aircraft because it seems like a moderate challenge to hit it.

Thus definitely a challenge to educate.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
I was wondering - why do people do this?

And then I realized probably in most cases for the same reasons I have pointed lasers at things. It is amusing to see how far away you can get the dot to land on something. I suppose some people actually intend to annoy or even endanger, but I bet it most cases people shine the laser at an aircraft because it seems like a moderate challenge to hit it.

Thus definitely a challenge to educate.
Click to expand...
The problem is that politicians, by and large, are paraphilic control freaks who get their rocks off by dominating others. Education may be the more sensible approach, but it doesn't make them hard.
 
PeterNSteinmetz said:
I was wondering - why do people do this?
Click to expand...
For the same reasons people, in general, break existing rules either by ignorance or don't give a hoot. And even when educated on the rules, look how many people break those rules every day like with the FARs or your average traffic laws. As they say laws are only for law-abiding individuals. If you ever get a chance to assist people who have broken the rules and got caught, you might give it a try and see how that other half lives. Its definitely an eye opener in most cases. It was for me.
 
It seems like was just randomly thinking it was fun and that no one in the police helicopter was blinded or injured. Indeed, apparently they carry glasses to protect from this. Unclear what sort of suspect the police were pursuing.
 
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