Seems like that may be enough to get it started!
Starting a flying club
- Thread starter Jim Logajan
- Start date
Yup.
I think all three of us are fine with a simple two seat VFR plane since we would fly alone most of the time. I spoke with a local A&P who has four(!) Ercoupes, though only two are currently airworthy. He'd be willing to sell one. He had no idea what it was worth, but vref.com suggests a value of a tad under $25k. According to AOPA Finance that is low enough that we'd have problems getting a loan. (20k is the lowest any of AOPA's lenders will lend while they'll only do a loan-to-value of 80%, making $25k the bottom. And the "value" is the lower of the sale or appraised value.)
So a simple VFR C-150 under about $35k seems to be acceptable to all of us. I do see the occasional C-150 for sale under $40k with IFR and a working glide slope. Plus it will be easier to recruit more members with a plane many pilots are already comfortable with. Though whereas I was thinking of capping the membership at 10, I could see capping it at as low as 5 or 6.
For that amount for the Ercoupe, I wonder if you could just put together some signature loans?
I've considered that and several other possibilities (e.g. buying and doing a leaseback to the club.) Any plane financed by the club will require someone to co-sign the loan. That would likely be me. I do have an excellent credit rating.
Held the first club meeting. There were just three of us. This is a slightly redacted copy of meeting notes I emailed to all interested prospects:
Hi all,
Paul, David, and I met at the restaurant this afternoon. We decided that there were just enough of us to move forward on forming the club. According to my recollection and notes we made the following tentative decisions (David and Paul should correct me where I got things wrong):
(1) We three would be the initial board of directors. I would be president until such time as some other victim is found. My home is the non-profit club mailing address for the time being.
(2) The Articles of Incorporation are being mailed tomorrow (Friday) to the South Dakota Secretary of State so we can become officially formed.
(3) We all had personal limits of around $5000 joining fee. Applying some estimates for financing and other starting costs yields a plane costing under $40,000.
(4) All three of us would be satisfied with a VFR C-150 as the first airplane. Models with 150 HP or useful loads over 500 lbs would be nice. Either would help climb rate.
(5) Paul works for an airline and has offered to travel to supervise any remote pre-buy inspections. And to ferry any plane we buy back to Rapid City.
(6) Probably base at Rapid City. Hangar space is a question mark - will see what the latest availability and cost is from Westjet Air (the City recently increased their lease rates so Westjet probably followed suit.)
(7) Agreed that student pilots can be members but will add a bylaw requirement that they carry non-owned aircraft (aka "renters") insurance. Something that all members should have anyway since any insurance the club buys would likely only cover the club, not its members.
(8) I will add a bylaw clause covering death or medical disability of a member. My suggestion is that the joining fee be refunded to the member or their estate if the engine overhaul fund is sufficient to make such a payment or if not, when it reaches a sufficient amount. Sadly, engine overhauls are more expensive to the club than the death or disability of a member. Our shared mortality sets the priority, IMHO.
(9) Once the club is registered with the state several things can proceed. One of which is that I apply for aircraft loan per-approval from AOPA Finance since I will co-sign the airplane loan.
(10) David and Paul both have accounts at BHFCU and I had BHFCU on my short list of possible credit unions/banks to use. So BHFCU will be the club bank unless someone suggests an alternative or some reason(s) to avoid them.
(11) Estimated costs for each of us three will be $5000 joining fee, $250/month dues (no hangar), and $26/hour dry rate. With good fortune we'll get something under the limit. If we can get three more members the joining fee and monthly dues gets halved (the aircraft hourly rate does not depend on number of members - depends mostly on remaining engine TBO.) As members join their joining fee can be split and paid out to existing members such that all members have equal net joining fees. At least up to some minimum joining fee.
Feel free to comment even if you weren't able to make it to the meeting or are unable to join the club yet.
As always, let me know if you wish to be removed from these email updates.
Jim
Hi all,
Paul, David, and I met at the restaurant this afternoon. We decided that there were just enough of us to move forward on forming the club. According to my recollection and notes we made the following tentative decisions (David and Paul should correct me where I got things wrong):
(1) We three would be the initial board of directors. I would be president until such time as some other victim is found. My home is the non-profit club mailing address for the time being.
(2) The Articles of Incorporation are being mailed tomorrow (Friday) to the South Dakota Secretary of State so we can become officially formed.
(3) We all had personal limits of around $5000 joining fee. Applying some estimates for financing and other starting costs yields a plane costing under $40,000.
(4) All three of us would be satisfied with a VFR C-150 as the first airplane. Models with 150 HP or useful loads over 500 lbs would be nice. Either would help climb rate.
(5) Paul works for an airline and has offered to travel to supervise any remote pre-buy inspections. And to ferry any plane we buy back to Rapid City.
(6) Probably base at Rapid City. Hangar space is a question mark - will see what the latest availability and cost is from Westjet Air (the City recently increased their lease rates so Westjet probably followed suit.)
(7) Agreed that student pilots can be members but will add a bylaw requirement that they carry non-owned aircraft (aka "renters") insurance. Something that all members should have anyway since any insurance the club buys would likely only cover the club, not its members.
(8) I will add a bylaw clause covering death or medical disability of a member. My suggestion is that the joining fee be refunded to the member or their estate if the engine overhaul fund is sufficient to make such a payment or if not, when it reaches a sufficient amount. Sadly, engine overhauls are more expensive to the club than the death or disability of a member. Our shared mortality sets the priority, IMHO.
(9) Once the club is registered with the state several things can proceed. One of which is that I apply for aircraft loan per-approval from AOPA Finance since I will co-sign the airplane loan.
(10) David and Paul both have accounts at BHFCU and I had BHFCU on my short list of possible credit unions/banks to use. So BHFCU will be the club bank unless someone suggests an alternative or some reason(s) to avoid them.
(11) Estimated costs for each of us three will be $5000 joining fee, $250/month dues (no hangar), and $26/hour dry rate. With good fortune we'll get something under the limit. If we can get three more members the joining fee and monthly dues gets halved (the aircraft hourly rate does not depend on number of members - depends mostly on remaining engine TBO.) As members join their joining fee can be split and paid out to existing members such that all members have equal net joining fees. At least up to some minimum joining fee.
Feel free to comment even if you weren't able to make it to the meeting or are unable to join the club yet.
As always, let me know if you wish to be removed from these email updates.
Jim
The club now shows as being registered with the state. Woohoo! Downloaded and printed the paperwork for purposes of opening an account at the credit union tomorrow. Got an EIN from the IRS and assembled other requested paperwork (e.g. they want to see meeting minutes where we authorized opening an account with them. So I cleaned up the report I posted above and made it into a formal looking meeting minutes document and signed it as acting secretary. Don't recall having to do that at other banks where I've opened accounts for for-profit corporations.)
Unexpected news:
A few weeks back the Sturgis Airport manager had given me a name and number to call about possible hangar space possibly opening up. Well, today that person finally called back. He has a hangar opening up on March 1. $250/month with a 6 month lease. Will try to coordinate with him to see the inside of the hangar next week.
I like the idea of a complete hangar rather than a shared one. Biggest down side is distance: 50 minute one-way drive vs 25 minutes for Rapid City airport (which is a $321/month FBO shared hangar that only FBO personnel can move aircraft in and out.) Rapid is towered and requires AOA badge. Sturgis is not towered and don't need no stinking badges.
I'm proposing we go with Sturgis since hangars don't become available very often. If we find we don't like the drive (all three of us have about 25 minutes added to our drives) then after six months we let it go.
Unexpected news:
A few weeks back the Sturgis Airport manager had given me a name and number to call about possible hangar space possibly opening up. Well, today that person finally called back. He has a hangar opening up on March 1. $250/month with a 6 month lease. Will try to coordinate with him to see the inside of the hangar next week.
I like the idea of a complete hangar rather than a shared one. Biggest down side is distance: 50 minute one-way drive vs 25 minutes for Rapid City airport (which is a $321/month FBO shared hangar that only FBO personnel can move aircraft in and out.) Rapid is towered and requires AOA badge. Sturgis is not towered and don't need no stinking badges.
I'm proposing we go with Sturgis since hangars don't become available very often. If we find we don't like the drive (all three of us have about 25 minutes added to our drives) then after six months we let it go.
Personally I would go with the closer hangar. At least to my subjective feeling there is a huge difference between driving 25 minutes when you just want to go fly and driving 50 minutes. I would do the latter much less frequently.
I'm used to 20 minutes drives to the airport to get my flying fix in. I may not tolerate a 50 minute drive just to save money while also trying to protect an old airplane from the elements. I'll do the drive to the Sturgis airport tomorrow just to see how it goes.
Got hit with planning whiplash today - but for the good.
Out of the proverbial blue (in keeping with the aviation theme) an email came in from a fellow asking if the club was interested in leasing his 1972 Cessna A150L Aerobat. Um, hell yeah! Anyway, another co-conspirator and I are going to take a look at the plane tomorrow.
I did not drive to Sturgis airport since the email came before I departed. Regardless of how things work out with the lease offer I think I'll table the idea of basing at Sturgis.
Out of the proverbial blue (in keeping with the aviation theme) an email came in from a fellow asking if the club was interested in leasing his 1972 Cessna A150L Aerobat. Um, hell yeah! Anyway, another co-conspirator and I are going to take a look at the plane tomorrow.
I did not drive to Sturgis airport since the email came before I departed. Regardless of how things work out with the lease offer I think I'll table the idea of basing at Sturgis.
An Aerobat? Wow. I'll buy it from him if he wants to sell.
He has other planes and says he isn't flying the Aerobat all that much. But probably doesn't want to sell yet, hence the offer to lease it to us.
Turns out the Aerobat can be flown IFR. Single NAV/COM though. That's original paint, or so the current owner says. Been through 3 owners.
Please remember - if you guys don’t lease it and he is willing to discuss selling it, I am on it!
We've come to an agreement on lease terms. They will perform an annual on it. I need to acquire insurance for the club. (Learning about aviation insurance was a chore.) And a few other minor tasks left to do. Once the annual is done and insurance is purchased we get to use the plane. I posted a few more pictures of it here:
https://pactolaflying.club/2023/02/04/plane-being-offered-for-lease/
https://pactolaflying.club/2023/02/04/plane-being-offered-for-lease/
They are waiting on some parts they ordered to replace stuff they found during the annual that needed replacing. So we've tentatively set March 1st as the start of the lease.
If counting from the date I sent out cards that makes four months to get the club airborne. Or six months from the time I decided to try starting a flying club.
If counting from the date I sent out cards that makes four months to get the club airborne. Or six months from the time I decided to try starting a flying club.
Turns out that the plane appears to be equipped with a wing leveler. Only noticed it when I looked closely at one of the photos I took. It's the red knob.
Seems like a curious addition to an Aerobat.
That is what I thought too.
Met with the mechanics/owners today and examined what they were up to. I was mislead by the photo of what I thought was a Wing Leveler knob: the red knob is the mixture control and the panel lettering for the Wing Leveler is there in the event one wanted to add that option. In which case a hole would have been punched into the panel for the switch and lot of extra plumbing and controls would have been rigged, which it wasn't.
Also, the radios are built for the old 50 kHz channel spacing but IFR flying requires radios using 25 kHz spacing [*]. The owners think it would cost a minimum of $6k to replace them (things tend to cascade....) So no IFR training in it, alas.
[*] https://www.faa.gov/documentLibrary/media/Advisory_Circular/AC90-50D.pdf
rotorwrench
Active member
My info is dated, but you may want to check into this further. I believe the FARs state you only require two-way communications with ATC on the appropriate frequencies. The AC is not regulatory. While you may not be able to use every airport or service due to lack of 25 khz spacing, I don't believe having a 360 channel radio prevents you flying IFR or entering controlled airspace.
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